. >> evansville, indiana. go ahead. >> caller: actually, i think the problem started in the '80s, before 1980, the private sector, about 20 2 to 30% were union inch the 80s, those job headed south in the nonunion states and created the rust belt. and then we had nafta. those jobs went to mexico. union job pays more. you got to have people making enough money to pay income tax and most people don't make enough with the deductions they can talk, and if you're a consumer, they drive the economy. and right now the union part in the private sector, is 4 to 5%, and i think that's part of the problem. >> host: what do you think? >> guest: well, interesting point. i think the caller is right that in the '8s, the manufacturing sector got hit very hard, particularly in the upper midwest, mark ohio, indiana. those jobs went the south in the '90s, those jobs went to mexico and the emerging world, not only because of nafta but because of the china came on the scene and other emerging economies that were very competitive. s